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Echoes from Salem: A Study of Witch Hunts and Mass Hysteria // Ep. 13 Part 1 of 2

October 10, 2023 AnnLee Audio House LLC Season 1 Episode 13

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Echoes from Salem: A Study of Witch Hunts and Mass Hysteria // Ep. 13 Part 1 of 2

A mole on your face, a confession before your peers, the ownership of a voodoo doll called a poppet,  reading anything other than a Bible- owning a book other than a Bible, dancing….those are all signs that someone has signed their soul away to the devil. And in the late 1600s in Salem, Massachusetts, a small Puritan village erupted into mass hysteria which is now known worldwide as the Salem Witch Trials. With no separation of church and state, the power to kill in the name of their beliefs meant that law enforcement enforced the Biblical teachings as strongly as the citizen codes. Between years 1692 and 1693, 25 innocent men, women, and children would lose their lives as victims of the massive witch hunt led by the religious leaders- 19 were hanged, 1 pressed to death, and 5 died in prison- all killed by those  who had motives much more sinister- I am going to take you into the ugly underbelly of the Salem Witch Trials and we’ll dive deep into a few particular stories of a few of victims- stories which should be known and there’s a lot to learn from this tragic and historical event. 

Let’s Go. 


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Speaker 1:

A mole on your face, a confession before your peers, the ownership of a doll called a puppet, playing musical instruments, reading anything other than a Bible, owning a book other than a Bible, dancing in celebration these are all signs that someone has signed their soul away to the devil. In the late 1600s in Salem, massachusetts, a small Puritan village erupted into mass hysteria, which is now known worldwide as the Salem Witch Trials. With no separation of church and state, the power to kill in the name of their beliefs meant that law enforcement enforced the biblical teachings as strongly as the citizen code, thus enacting something that is called theocracy when theology meets democracy. Between years 1692 and 1693, 25 innocent men, women and children would lose their lives as victims of the massive witch hunt led by the religious leaders of this town. 19 were hanged, one person pressed to death and five died in prison, all killed by those who had motives much more sinister. I'm going to take you into the ugly underbelly of the Salem Witch Trials and we'll dive deep into a few particular stories of a few victims, stories which should be known, as there's a lot to learn from this tragic and historical event.

Speaker 1:

Welcome to Spooky Season on True Crime and Headlines. I'm your host, jules. Let's go, welcome to Episode 13, part 1 of 2, the Salem Witch Hunt. I'm your true crime bestie, jules, your host, and I am a former educator and a lifelong consumer of true crime education, and Joe is typically with me. She's our other co-host and she's not here today. She got called out for work, so we are going to go forward and record this episode and I miss you, joe.

Speaker 1:

We are on a little bit of a tight schedule here, you guys, because I am having surgery, actually in two days from when this episode is released. So if you think about me, keep me near thoughts and your prayers, if you can. I am undergoing some surgery to better my health and I am so excited. And if you follow me on Instagram at your host, jules, I do go into what I'm doing and why I'm doing it, so make sure you say hi to me there. So if you could leave us a five-star review, that would be good.

Speaker 1:

We are trying so hard to grow in the sea of true crime podcasts and we're finding that spreading awareness about our stories through word of mouth and growing in the algorithms by having reviews up good reviews is the number one way to do so. And don't forget, in 2024, I am releasing our first full-length investigative series podcast on the 2004 Unsolved Disappearance of Cross Plains, tennessee residents, jennifer and Adriana Wicks. That will be its own standalone podcast, produced by us me and Joe here at Anley Audiohouse LLC. So make sure you follow us at True Crime and Headlines on Instagram, and we're also on TikTok although the TikTok confuses me a little bit, but you can follow us there too and say hi. I absolutely love to hear from you guys. We have the best community here.

Speaker 1:

Thank you everybody for following along, and let's just go on and kick off spooky season, shall we All right? We look forward to bringing you a few more spooky theme stories this season. And also, just so you know, my surgery is on Friday the 13th, which is my lucky number, my lucky day. So I actually feel really good. I'm really good about it. But okay, let's go ahead and get started without further ado.

Speaker 1:

Meet me in Salem, massachusetts, in the late 1600s, so the 1690s to be exact. This entire story, as a piece of historical nonfiction, is very involved. I taught this unit multiple years when I was a high school English teacher and each semester I got to nerd out more and more because this story is so multi-layered I won't do a dive as deep as I used to when I was a teacher here, but I will link books and other sources for anyone who wants to nerd out even harder after this episode is done. I got you truecrimeandheadlinescom. Go to our episode notes. I also have all our sources there. We can't learn about the Salem witch hunt hysteria without backing it up a little to understand how we even got to this point.

Speaker 1:

Witch hunts were not uncommon before Salem. Many people get confused about that. Many people are under the impression that Salem was the kickoff for witch hunts and that is far from accurate. For hundreds of years prior to the 1690s, prior to the Salem witch hunts, europe had massive witch hunts where hundreds of people were sometimes killed in a single day. So this is nothing new. It's very woven into the fabric of the history of the religion and we can go into that in a little bit as well. The most commonly victimized gender was female, which is likely why most witches in folklore are females. It's historically accurate in terms of the accusations.

Speaker 1:

So let's talk about the common image of a witch. When I say picture a witch, what comes to mind? Did you picture? The big nose, the wart on the nose, on the cheek, on the chin, black clothes, black hat, shriveled lady. I don't know why Oftentimes I go to the witch in Snow White, maybe because that's the one that is first exposed to. That really formed my vision. Some of you may have gone to Glenda the good witch in the Wizard of Oz. That is the opposite. We want more alphaba the other witch, the wicked witch of the West.

Speaker 1:

As far as historically accurate folklore and that's all accurate for the historical records of evidence that people used to prove that someone was being afflicted with the devil. So witchcraft, being a witch, was that you made a compact with the devil and you were carrying out his work. So here are three types of evidence that was actually used in the court of law. Now, remember, it was theocracy, so theology and democracy were one. There was not a separation of church and state at this time, which is also how this was allowed to occur, which blows our mind today. But remember, we have to look at historical context through the scope of the context of the time. So our worldview cannot try to wrap our minds around how this could have happened at the time, but we're going to try to put ourselves in the shoes of the time.

Speaker 1:

Number one spectral evidence. So, if you don't know, spectral literally means like a ghost. So anything that seems spooky, anything supernatural, can be admitted into the court. And this was actually not typical of the time, but they allowed it for this exact court case season. And it's basically that somebody could accuse someone else of being a witch and they could state that they saw that person come to them in a dream or a vision and that person caused them harm. And there's absolutely no way to disprove the spectral evidence. I mean, it was allowed in court.

Speaker 1:

And it gets even wilder. People could claim that the witches form came to them, just the form, even though the actual person they were accusing was still at home, miles away. Oh, their form came to me. So even if the accused could prove hey, I wasn't there, I was at home with my family doing this it wouldn't matter, because their spirit or the aid of the devil, or what is called a witch's familiar, which is an animal like a cat stereotypical black cat with the witches that's where that comes from could be delivering the harm for them. So a witch's familiar was an entity of the devil and the witchcraft and it could also mark that the person was of affiliation with the devil. So make it make sense, because I cannot.

Speaker 1:

However, the testimony also of two eyewitnesses to act of witchcraft by the accused. So two people had to come forward and say I saw Sarah doing acts of witchcraft, so did I. Two people had to have witnessed these to be considered evidence in the court of law. Okay, and then the third one is confession. If you were accused and you confessed, there are different ramifications than if you did not confess, and I'll go into that. And you know we do need to dive into it more, because why on earth would anyone want to confess to witchcraft, especially being given the possibility of kicked out of the village to live in the woods?

Speaker 1:

You could be exiled from heaven, per their own words, exiled into the woods, which were heavily populated at the time with Native American tribes. And there was mass contention, hostile relations between the Puritans and the Native Americans who were originally on the land. And you know the Native Americans. They had their Native American myths and creation stories, all of which the Puritans looked at like devil work, major contentions between the two, not good blood between the two. Obviously, there's a whole, a whole reasoning behind that. That's not for this episode, but if you know any history of the Native American relations with the people that colonized here, you would understand and rightfully so the contention between the two. There was absolutely no understanding, no meeting of the minds between the two and the Puritans.

Speaker 1:

If they were exiled into the force out of their village, it would likely mean that they were then subsequently killed by the tribes and they would be denied entry into heaven, which is quite possibly the highest level of shame that you could give a Puritan believer. If they were to confess to witchcraft, though, they would avoid being killed. So if they were to be found guilty later, after denying the allegations, you know they would be clear to being killed. They could divide their land to their families if they confessed and pass on their land legacy to their families, instead of losing it all, which typically happened. If they proclaimed innocence and then they were found guilty in the court of theocracy, then they would have their land taken from them.

Speaker 1:

Now, if you're like me, you're wondering wow, you could accuse your neighbor of witchcraft. I know he's going to deny, deny, deny. I bet I could get his land if I accused him. And if you don't think that happened. Think again. Put on your tinfoil hats, you guys, because this gets even crazier. If you wanted to save your legacy, your family name, even if you're in jail, you could still live. Then you would confess. Family members would encourage each other to confess. Please, daddy, confess, so you don't get hanged. We want you to live. Please, wives, begging husbands, please confess that you're a wizard. You can't leave us with nothing if you die. It's true, it's what would happen.

Speaker 1:

Those are the three type of evidences to convict someone of witchcraft or wizardry. But now we need to talk about what people used to even accuse somebody before we even get to court. As evidence in the court of law, what would count as accusing them of witchcraft? What were the signs? Okay, let's go.

Speaker 1:

I found a great article on the American Bar Association's website about the Salem witch trials and it's really interesting because it goes into the history of reasoning against allowing hearsay in today's courts, which is basically everything that was allowed in the courts back then during the 1692 to 93 Salem witch trials, and that's what we call here, say spectral evidence. But you know it also dives into other signs Someone is a witch. I quote from the website someone became a witch by entering into a compact with the devil, who often appeared as a darkly dressed man. They knew that witches had at least one mark on their body. The devil might leave one at the time the witch agreed to serve him, or the witch might grow a small nipple to feed her familiars, the cats and other creatures who did their bidding, or both. They knew that witches were often seen in the presence of their familiars. They knew that witches could change shape, could transport themselves through the air and could appear in spectral form to their targets. They knew that witches use dolls, sometimes called puppets, to work their curses. They knew that a witch could not recite the Lord's Prayer without stumbling, and so on and so on. End quote. And to take it further, the Puritans believed reading any book outside the Bible was entertaining the devil. So you can imagine how people with free thought, innovative thought, renaissance man type of thought in this type of community would be easy targets as evidence that they are indeed in compact with the devil.

Speaker 1:

This is a great segue into what the Puritans believed and who they actually were. Yeah, you know, I talked about how we have to try to understand where they're coming from to have allowed this. So we can't do it without learning a little bit about the Puritans. So get nerdy with me, because learning is fun. So before the witch hunts of Salem, remember it's nothing new. There are witch hunts that were taking place for hundreds of years in Europe and in fact, where at just 19 women were hanged in Salem over the course of a year. Like I said, 100 may have been killed in Europe in one day.

Speaker 1:

Although the accusations and hunts for witches did begin to subside quite a bit before Salem's occurred, it was clearly still a watered down practice passed on within their religion that they brought over from Europe to what is now America. The Puritans use this specific verse from the Bible to justify the hunt and eradication of witchcraft. If you didn't know, this is the verse from the Bible which most everything that occurred hangs on Exodus 22,18, quote do not allow a sorceress to live, end quote. And thus they would continue to use this verse in their proceedings onward and so forth. Now, with a twist of irony, the Puritan religion believed that they were God's chosen people and it was their job to purify the religion. And it was just in 1630, so a mere 60 years prior to the witch trials when the Puritans even came from England to America. Now they didn't separate from the Church of England but they wanted to reform it in their own way to purify it.

Speaker 1:

So Puritans were a very anxious religious group because they never knew if they were saved or not. They just lived in a perpetual state of anxiety Am I damned or am I saved? You know they believed that, yes, they were chosen and they were selected for salvation as a group by God and the rest of the world. You know they're headed for a damnation and they continued to seek out ways to honor God so that God would bless them. But they believed if they dishonored God they would be punished severely and thus they would deserve it. You know it wasn't just an individual's journey to salvation, it was a collective journey. There's the community, the congregation as a whole needed to honor God, and this absolutely plays out in how the Puritans began accusing one another of witchcraft. Hopefully now you can understand a little bit more about the Puritans and the importance to them of seeming to be holy, seeming to be living on God's word and using the biblical passages to justify their actions.

Speaker 1:

The 1692 through 1693 Salem witch hunt, you know, truly divided the entire colony. It caused children to accuse parents, husbands accuse their wives, neighbors accuse neighbors. Nobody was safe from witchcraft and devil dealing accusations, and in a climate where it was all but impossible to disprove allegations made against you, what could you do but accuse someone else and take the heat off of you? If you were able to name other witches you know the ones who cursed you you could possibly be found not guilty and thus save your life. Can you see now why so many people named other people as witches? Survival at its finest. If you were able to name the ones who afflicted you, you could possibly be found not guilty. And thus we enter into the ever-revolving door of the witch hunt proceedings.

Speaker 1:

When, quote-unquote touch tests are done in a court of law to prove someone is a witch, what is there to do to fight against it? You guys, this is wild. Here's a list of tests actually conducted in the court during the Salem witch trials. I did find these from numerous sources. It's a known, historically documented Thank you proof or whatever. Now, I did find this in numerous sources. It's very heavily documented and including one that was the History Channel. So I'm going to list seven the History Channel named and explain them in my own words, we have the swimming test. This one is likely the most upsetting and distressing. This is what happened. So quote from the History Channel.

Speaker 1:

Quote the accused witches were dragged to the nearest body of water, stripped to their undergarments, bound and then tossed in to see if they would sink or float. Some witches were believed to have spurned the sacrament of baptism. It was thought that the water would reject their bodies and prevent them from submerging Submerging end quote. Now this logic is absolutely trash. I mean, it's asinine. What's instinct? But to fight to breathe, which involved coming to the surface for air bobbing, would be a survival instinct. It would take a very controlled individual, in the heat of a crisis and traumatic situation, to clearly think through that. Okay, okay, I need to sink to the bottom of this body of water in order to prove that I am not a witch, and thus I have to trust that this rope that has bound around me will pull me up after enough time has gone by and save me so I can breathe before I drown. Okay, and yes, you guys, many accused did accidentally drown because they were not pulled up in time. So that would be called murder, even those who had the control to sink, or some just couldn't swim. It's a lose, lose and recall. This is only done if they reject the accusation of being a witch. I am not a witch. Okay, let's do the swim test, shall we?

Speaker 1:

And a lot of times, the people that were thrown into the water were kept in jail cells for months in horrible conditions deteriorating muscle mass, unhealthy bones, ailments. Interestingly enough, have you ever heard the term quote, trial by water? It is from an ancient practice where the accused were chucked into powerful moving bodies of water and then it would be up to the water's current AKA fate to decide what happened. And this is essentially the same idea Wackadoodle. Then we have the prayer test.

Speaker 1:

So it is believed that those afflicted by and in deals with the devil would not be able to verbally speak any of God's words without stumbling, mumbling, stuttering. So the courts would make the accused recite the Lord's prayer. However, if they stumbled, made any mistakes, et cetera, they would be considered as one who has made a pact with the devil. And don't get me started on this one, folks. What about being nervous? What about being illiterate? Have an speech disability? Who remembers everything? In A state of panic and fear, who can not stutter at least once throughout a day. Mumble over your words. Tumble over your words. Not me, that might be you. No, it's not. It's not possible. You add a layer of fatigue, of panic, of fear into this recipe for disaster. Come on, but get this.

Speaker 1:

According to the History Channel quote, during the Salem Witch Trials, the accused sorcerer, George Burroughs, flawlessly recited the prayer from the gallows just before his execution. The performance was dismissed as a devil's trick and the hanging proceeded as planned. And quote what? What? They're making up the rules as they go and they're changing the rules as they go. There is no way out unless you confess, and then you could be exiled, or you're in jail forever to rot and die, or your name is passed on as being synonymous with the devil. You've ruined your family's legacy. Oh, the touch test. So to dive deeper into this one, let's talk about it. If a person was in the midst of a type of devil-induced fit, then the court would bring out the accused. The accused of being a witch would then be forced to lay their hands upon their accuser who is claiming to be in the middle of some type of theatrics performance, and if the accuser once touched stops, then it's proven that the accused is indeed a witch or sorcerer, as they have the power to stop the affliction. So here's the deal.

Speaker 1:

I really hate this girl over here. She's a freaking witch. Bring her out and I'm freaking out, convulsing, and they tell that girl that I say, oh, she a witch, she's gonna scratch me, right. And because I want her gone, whatever reason, I could have been persuaded by my parents, my father. I could be political motivation, I could want their land. She could have looked at me sideways. I could want her husband. I could be bored, I could be enjoying this. Whatever the reason they have her, scratch me because if she's the one who put this curse on me, because she's a witch, if she scratches me, then that is the power she's going to bestow upon me to stop. That's what she holds over me and I'll just stop. So I know I'm gonna freak out when she touches me. She's a witch. Look, look, jules, stopped. That means that girl's a witch. Jules isn't afflicted anymore. Tell me, that's not crazy, guys. Tell me, tell me, tell me, tell me.

Speaker 1:

The court did not do the touch test on her. I'm not going to do that. The court did not do the touch test on two elderly women in Salem, the same way that they did the touch test on everybody else. So there were two elderly women, rose Colander and Amy Denney, and this is sad y'all. They were accused by young children in the village and they were accused of having bewitched these two girls, and the girls were so committed to playing out the narrative that these elderly women were harming them through witchcraft that they squeezed their fists so tight and it was reported that not even strong men could open their fists. There was nothing that they could do to release their fists. However, the court did blindfold the girls for the final touch test in court. So here's what happened Earlier test had been done and when the girls were touched by the women, they would immediately unclench their fists, thus showing that, yes, those are the women that cursed us. And what do you know? These girls in the final court showing were blindfolded and random people in the court were told to touch the girls and guess what? The girls immediately unclench their fists, even though the elderly women did not touch them. They never touched them, which is great news for elderly Rosen-Amy, but no, the court still decided okay, that wasn't enough to prove their innocence. They were not let go and they ultimately became two of the 19 women who were hanged under conviction of being a witch in the court of law and theology in Massachusetts between the years 1692 to 1693. We have these laws, these rules, these procedures, and when people can prove it's not true, they still can't prove it's not true.

Speaker 1:

The next is whack-a-doodle. You ready which cake? This is nasty. No way about it, guys. It's basically a cake that is baked and fed to the accused witch's familiar. Now recall the familiar is the animal that has the evil spirit and accompanies the witch. The purpose of this cake was to make the familiars fall under the spell of the cake and its ingredients and then proclaim before the court the name of the witch. So let's say there's a dog in town that's gotta be a witch's familiar. Let's feed the dog the witch's cake and then the dog will take us and reveal to us the witch Spoiler. It never worked.

Speaker 1:

The cake ingredient let's talk about it. The victim's urine. Yes, you heard me correctly, but I'll say it again the victim's urine. So Jules is going to accuse Joe of being a witch. So Jules is now saying that she's been a victim of a witch. And here's this cat around. I'm gonna put my pee into a cake with rye and ashes and bake it all into a lovely cake and I'm gonna feed it to this animal. This animal, in turn from the witch's, is going to be a cat. I'm gonna feed it to the cat and I'm gonna feed it to the cat. This animal, in turn from the witch's cake, is going to be compelled to tell me who is witches. They want to snitch the witch. Snitch the witch. That's our new shirt.

Speaker 1:

This was used when the victim appeared mysteriously ill and it was suspected that they were under the spell of a witch and they were either possessed or cursed. You know, anything that couldn't be explained away was explained away by saying it was the devil work. Then we have the witch's marks. Well, and it's exactly as obvious as it seems y'all. It's a mole or a mark on the body. Really, it's anything.

Speaker 1:

The accused were forced to strip naked before the court and were then subsequently searched for all to see if they had any marks on their bodies which could be claimed as marks given to them by the devil upon making a deal. Hey devil, let's make a deal. Now I have a third teat. Great, thank you for the superfluous nipple. They called this the devil's mark and that's also called the devil's teat, and it's basically something that the accusers would consider a third nipple. Did anybody watch Friends with Chandler and his nipple Third nipple it was a nipple, right. I gotta go Remember that Joe's not here to help me with my friends. Trivia Also shout out Katie and Lindsay and Lindsay, my girls. I'm going to see them this weekend and it's all friends. Quotes all the time. I'm so excited.

Speaker 1:

The History Channel says quote in the midst of witch hunts, desperate villagers would sometimes even burn or cut off any offending marks on their bodies, only to have their wounds labeled as proof of a covenant with the devil. End quote oh my gosh, there was no winning. I don't want to be considered a witch. I'm going to cut or burn off my mole. Now they're saying look, there's the scar that's got to be a witch's teat to feed her familiar what? Help me understand. I am having a little bit of difficulty pricking and scratching tests. This is also exactly what it sounds like.

Speaker 1:

So, because the prosecutors claimed that a mark of the devil or a witch's teat could not feel any pain and it couldn't bleed, they would often have people come into the court and poke and scratch the accused bodies in the spots that they thought were like witch's teats or witch's marks, and if the mark didn't bleed, they'd say it was because you're afflicted with the devil and you're a witch. That's why you're not bleeding. Allegedly, the courts would have con men come into the court and assume the job as the prick master. I named him that. It's not the real name, but can we make that? Spread the prick master and perform the scratch test. But they used a dull, flat needle tip so that they wouldn't draw any blood. Wow, goodness, gracious, golly. The scratch test is the same type of theory y'all. Oftentimes.

Speaker 1:

You know prosecutors brought in the accusers to scratch the accused hard enough. So you're going to scratch the person you say is a witch to draw the blood out. But let's say I accused Joe. They're gonna bring her out Like Joe, you're a witch and you've bewitched me, Witch, witch. I'm gonna scratch Joe and I'm starting to feel better now I've scratched her of drawn blood. I feel better now. That's a sign that Joe was a witch, because if I find relief after drawing blood from her, her grip on me is being released. What, what? And lastly, stay with me, darlings.

Speaker 1:

Inquantations, incantations, incantations, incaka. Lastly, incantations, also known as charges. These would have the accused witch audibly proclaim for their alleged possessed victim to immediately come out of their curse or trance. You guys, the court, would watch and it was up to the judge's discretion if this charge worked or not. If the victims appear to have been healed, then the witch would be found guilty and would be hanged. Yes, I am in court. I am accused of being a witch. Joe has accused me of cursing her in the court. They bring me out. I look at Joe and I say come out of your trance, come out of it now. No more curse. You're not cursed. If Joe immediately starts to feel better, if it looks like Joe is not afflicted anymore before the judges, that's evidence that I do have the power, indeed, to curse her and remove the curse. So I'm a witch and I'm going to be hanged.

Speaker 1:

And now let's talk about the punishments. Let's take you through the process. You've just been accused of becoming a witch, joe. You deny it. Two people come forward and they say they've witnessed you do acts of the devil. A search of your home shows a puppet and books other than the Bible. You're stripped in court naked and they find a mole which is obviously a witch's teat to feed your familiar, which is your family dog, which is the connection to the devil? You're going to be found guilty. You know your punishment will likely be hanging. How do you get out? You have a family, you have kids.

Speaker 1:

According to an article on the official Massachusetts governor website quote an accused witch could avoid execution by confessing, repenting and putting the blame on someone else. End quote Basically, three things could save your life, guys Confess that you signed your name in the devil's book and you are indeed a witch. This could save your life, but we'd remark you guilty and your family name is forever tarnished. Plus, recall this is one of the biggest sins for a Puritan and that's what you believe. You're either saved or damned to hell, and you live your life in a constant state of anxiety that you're not going to be saved. So admitting to it wasn't enough. You also needed to repent before God and your peers. So you have to admit that you were wrong. I was a witch and I was wrong. I signed my name and what I did was wrong. Not just that it was true. Then you need to point out who cursed you, and thus we remain in the cycle of a witch hunt Save yourself by bringing down others. But what if there were other motives to begin? What if I told you that the 1692 witch hunt of Salem Massachusetts, began because a group of young girls in the small Puritan village who were searching for more excitement beyond the rules and restrictions of the very controlled life were responsible for this? In a community where image of the individual was also the image of a community, a massive witch hunt would begin, but not because people are afraid of witches, but rather their darkest secrets coming out.

Speaker 1:

Part two will be the dark and true story behind the motives for the Salem witch hunt of 1692 to 1693 and how it all started, with young girls, a slave from South America and a community's quest to save face. We've obviously talked about hangings, which was the most common one, but we will also talk about the punishment of an 81-year-old man named Giles Corey, called Pressing. This has been part one of episode 13, the Salem witch hunt. I'm your host, jules. Joe will be back with us later on in episodes. I'm so glad you guys are here. Truly, you continue to leave me speechless. I know that's not true. Talk, talk, talk. But I am blown away all the time by the kindness in this community, from people that have massive podcasts and following to people that are just starting out. The kindness knows no bounds and I'm really bonding with people who have the common thread tied together of being here for the victims and advocating for people and learning about the human condition through history.

Speaker 1:

True Crime and Headlines is headed to CrimeCon, you guys. It's in Nashville in 2024 and tickets go on sale October 2nd. I don't know what capacity will be at CrimeCon, but I will be at CrimeCon. So if you are also going to, let me know so that we can plan some kind of dinner meetup, as I would love to meet you guys and just meet people with similar mindsets. And don't forget, no matter what you've done in your past, no matter who you are, everybody is worthy of being loved. Starting over, starting fresh, you matter, we need you here, we love you and your butt looks great, sis.

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