Speaker 1: 0:00

Welcome back to episode 15. This is the case of Lysia McClain and this is part two. Part one was previously, so if you haven't listened to that one, you need to stop and go back and listen to that one. Join me in part one and then come back here. I'll be here, don't worry, I'll wait for you in part two. Let's go. Just a little bit of a recap. Jo is going to rejoin us on episode 16. I am riding with you, you're in shotgun, I'm behind the wheel and welcome.

Speaker 1: 0:47

I'm doing my best to present this case as apolitical as I can. If I do my job correctly, which you know I'm human. Who knows? I'm still learning this as I go, but I am trying not to insert any political bias. Hopefully you will not know where I stand politically. Hopefully, if anything, I stir up frustrations about injustice or justice within you to ask big questions. That's always the goal here is to ask the big questions, even if they're uncomfortable, and to not shy away from the tough conversations.

Speaker 1: 1:19

Elijah McClain died in police custody. We are trying to ask the big question was law enforcement responsible for Elijah McClain's death? Were the medics responsible for his death? That is what we're trying to find out Now, last episode, in part one, I left you on how Ketamine was administered to Elijah using the justification that he had excited delirium syndrome. Now, excited delirium syndrome, as I told you in part one, is not recognized as an actual mental health condition. So we are wondering why the Aurora Police Department was allowing the officers to see symptoms and signs that they perceived as excited delirium syndrome in order to justify giving a detainee Ketamine. Okay, and that is super important because that will come into play on who was ultimately responsible for the death of Elijah McClain.

Speaker 1: 2:32

Does the public have access to the tier of interventions applied by police we talked about? Start with least invasive. Hey, a verbal hey, can't talk to you. Then you escalate that. But you have to start least invasive, then end with the most invasive. Yet within just a few minutes, within two minutes I think, of talking to Elijah from the police car hey, hey, I want to talk to you. Elijah is pinned to the ground. Officers have their hands on him. Elijah has no weapons on him, no narcotics on him.

Speaker 1: 3:10

How did the officers justify this? Well, according to audio that I heard on the police camera footage, one of the officers told the other officer that Elijah, when Elijah was pinned against this apartment complex brick building when he refused to stop for police. He said I have a right to go home. I'm going home. You don't have a right to touch me. Respect my space. He would not stop. So the police said they had a right to stop him and Elijah said he had a right to go home. And ultimately the police used physical force, put their hands on Elijah, pinned him against the wall and one of the officers told the one pinning hey, he's going for your gun. And this escalated the situation where they put Elijah on the floor.

Speaker 1: 4:04

Now I did hear in the audio and you can go here for yourself too, in the links that I provided on our website, truecrimeandheadlinescom that the officer that had pinned him did not see Elijah going for his gun. He reports that's what the other officer on the scene told him. So we have to ask the question if what they perceived was Elijah going for his gun, then they were perceived in danger. Would pinning him to the ground be the next appropriate step? Now Elijah said he was going for his headphones to take his music out of his ears.

Speaker 1: 4:49

I don't know the truth. We don't know the truth. What we know is what both parties believe happened. And that is how we find Elijah on the floor, on the ground, being pinned by police officers who perceived Elijah to be a threat to their own lives. Then he proceeds to throw up and he's trying to fix his body so he can breathe. He says I can't breathe and one officer says I will get my police dog on you if you don't knock it off. Okay, so now we're caught up to speed. How did we jump through all the lease and basis steps so quickly with a person who was not physically violent back to these officers at the time when he was on the floor?

Speaker 1: 5:36

I say that after reviewing these videos. Now it's easy for me to say that because I'm not in the moment. I don't have my heart rate up, I don't have my adrenaline pumping, I don't have a fight-or-flight instinct. I'm just watching these three large men on this 23 year old, 5 foot 4, 140 pound individual. So there's officer judgment of perceived danger that comes into question. If they perceive themselves in danger, was the pinning appropriate, yes or no? If they were able to restrain him to the ground, if he's moving a little bit, was a corroded hold necessary or was that considered excessive force? Now they did admit on camera it worked. He passed out at least once. They heard snoring. In fact, another officer has to make a call in and say, hey, I need you to know, we did administer this corroded hold. So medical responders arrive and this is what transpires.

Speaker 1: 6:45

Let's talk about what the officers tell the family about what transpires when the family does get contacted and told Elijah's in the hospital which they're all dumbfounded. They are so confused. Let's hear what the next day shift officer tells Elijah's family when they arrive at the hospital. Now, elijah's family doesn't really know anything, so go into that knowing they have a 23 year old son, cousin, brother, nephew who is in the hospital on a lot of medical equipment support just to keep him stable. We have arrived at the hospital and these are two of Elijah's aunts who are just being greeted by the day shift police officer. Now, the day shift police officer.

Speaker 1: 7:41

I watched a lot of footage of this man who is just trying to patiently contact Elijah's family. He is showing signs of extreme patience, in my opinion and you can go and look for that yourself he sounds considerate and respectful and polite and he has a very calming demeanor. However, he does not provide any tangible information for this family, who is very clearly shocked, confused and distressed. So let's listen to how they are officially telling Elijah's aunties in the hospital about Elijah's events that night prior. Sorry, thank you so much. Let's see if we can console. I'm gonna console Auntie, okay. Okay, I'll hand it over to you. Is he still around? He is at work, so we're gonna get him in Okay, Okay, so that's not where we're going.

Speaker 3: 8:54

So I'll kind of practice this, but I just got on a few hours ago. This occurred last night. So what happened is it's been very difficult for you to identify and then find out which boss to your partner today, and quite the worry I'm trying to track down. So the information I have is limited. I'll give you everything I have. There's just I'll be honest with you, there's not a whole lot I can answer. I don't have any questions. I'll give you a clue. So about 10 30 last night there was a. We received a report of a suspicious person at nearby, I think, your apartment, where an evergreen officer who was dispatched out of somebody else's call they're in there some details about his suspicious activity.

Speaker 2: 9:49

The officer showed up Some sort of altercation this week and he was subdued, and then at some point during that as well, then we've received medical treatment, and sometime during the medical treatment as well, there was something happened from there to here, and so I don't have the opposite of that encounter again. Is he? Is he here, right?

Speaker 3: 10:18

now.

Speaker 2: 10:19

No, no. So so here's what I want to stress. There's, like I said, the information is very limited because, because I'm 15 while, well, it's being investigated, so the whole thing's being investigated.

Speaker 3: 10:37

Our major crime scene is involved. I've got contact information for them. It's like I said, I got on this morning so I have very little information, so I just been trying to find you guys. Has he been shot and tased? Not that I'm aware of. He said he's an ice in it. He just was being done. I don't know, I don't know. I don't even know that. Did someone else jump out here or did these injuries come? You know he's subdued by the officer. I don't have any information. All I know is that when you received the call of some sort of, you know I have to come back here. I can't come down here and go and bring this thing back. So so somebody called the police over here.

Speaker 2: 11:34

Well, I haven't got a strip in my house because my status came to a store in there in turn, and that's a three hour stay.

Speaker 3: 11:42

And, and so I'm gonna. I'm gonna reach out. I'm trying to get a call there, the detective because I'm sure they're walking over. Somebody's gonna run around. Somebody jumped over, so somebody jumped over. They said he ain't going to go out to the table. Somebody's gonna go out. I love these. Yes, man, I want to make sure that you guys can get to the medical. Okay, I really am a doctor, I don't do that. Okay, can I go see my nephew? Can I go see my nephew? Can I see my nephew? Um, so, his mom's in there right now. She's with him. We're gonna bring everyone back. We'll have to talk to him and talk to you, and then we'll let you guys come back to us.

Speaker 2: 12:36

Okay, we just there's a lot going on, there's a lot of machines.

Speaker 3: 12:45

There's a lot going on. People coming in tracks, people coming in tracks. She's doing a lot of support. He's doing a lot of support. If only an officer encountered him and there ain't no witnesses. I asked this officer what she shot her taking. He said no. So he was jumped on by the police.

Speaker 2: 13:04

So I don't I, I have no idea what happened there. I can speak to that. I can speak to what's going on here. Thank you, We'll bring the dots back to come and talk to you and then you guys can come and see us.

Speaker 1: 13:17

Okay, I believe that what they have to do which is protocol, is a protocol for liability purposes is not give information until they have the story figured out. And I say this as story figured out, not saying a narrative that they are going to spin or make up. So don't get it twisted that I'm saying they made it up. What I'm saying is the facts. They don't know the facts. They did split up the police officers as soon as Elijah McClain coded. As soon as he got in the ambulance, elijah McClain coded and you can see on the body cam footage that the medics are administering CPR on Elijah McClain's sedated body, trying to bring his heart back to life, which they did. And then that is why Elijah McClain is in the hospital with a lot of machines hooked up to him just to continue to give him life support. His aunties, one of his aunts, his mom's sister, asked was he shot in the officer? No, was he tased? No, so he was jumped. There were no witnesses. So this must mean that the officer jumped him. Nobody will confirm to her. Obviously, if you confirm, that would be admit of liability for that and that's not this officer's place to do so they have departments for that, they have legal reps. Obviously there are places and protocols and policies in place. People have these specific jobs.

Speaker 1: 15:14

However, giving all of this information to the family and giving no information to the family is very suspect. And this auntie is sharp. She is so smart, she calls it. She's so intuitive, she knows what's going on. And you'll notice, there's another lady who was talking to her saying I can't confirm anything. All I know is that he's on supports right now in the room. His mom's in the room. I can't let you in Right now. There's a lot going on. She is an assistant manager for the hospital. She is not law enforcement. Now I'm gonna backtrack to the scene of the incident and we're going to listen to audio from the body footage again. And I want you to pay close attention to how the police officers are recounting this incident While they are currently restraining Elijah on the floor and fire shows up before the medics arrive.

Speaker 2: 16:18

I don't know what it was. It probably looks like a yeah.

Speaker 3: 16:27

Got to throw up, dude? Yeah, throw up right there. Okay, don't throw up on me though.

Speaker 2: 16:33

We got fire coming right.

Speaker 3: 16:34

Yeah, I call him. Probably when you first went out and I don't think he went out, dude, he was like halfway I think. But hey, dude, relax.

Speaker 1: 16:42

I want to pause that real quick. When he first went out, that is when one officer called the fire department, one officer assessed the corroded hold as being successful and that Elijah did pass out. Therefore, protocol is to call the fire department to get medical immediately. Now they do have a bit of a disagreement here. I don't think he went out all the way, but all the way would indicate I don't think he went out all the way would indicate he did go out a little bit. I don't know, is it kind of like you're kind of pregnant or you're not pregnant? You're either pregnant or you're not. You either lose consciousness or you don't. And this is the big question because I'm picking this apart. I'm not intentionally trying to lead you in one way or the other, but I, at this point in this podcast episode, we have to pick apart the details, because in part three the responders are going to be charged with manslaughter and negligence, criminal negligence, and all of these details are going to come up in court.

Speaker 3: 17:57

Okay, get it out, dude. Thanks for everything. All right, get it out. You need to swap out, so you can take care of that.

Speaker 2: 18:08

No, I'm good, you'll see me. You need anything? No, he was. We got called to a Suspo. He was out here walking around with a ski mask on, so you don't need the soap on picked up. No, we just bring it over by him, dude. And then we contacted him.

Speaker 2: 18:23

We ran a ski mask. We got that covered. We started to kind of like walk away from us. So these two wrap them up and then, in the mix of them wrapping them up, pushing them against the wall right here, he reached for Rosie's gun, dude. So, oh fuck, I need to get up. Fuck Dude, just stay on your side. Rosie rolling this way. Dude, Are you able to Fuck my legs locking up? There you go. They're good.

Speaker 2: 18:48

Don't get up dude, it's not gonna be good for you. I'm telling you right now, if you can't mess around, I'm gonna bring my dog out. He's gonna talk about you. You understand me?

Speaker 1: 18:56

Okay, within 30 seconds probably fewer seconds than that of throwing up he's on the side, he's having a hard time breathing, he's puking. He was put in a corroded hold and I don't know if the reason he's puking is from distress or from the hold. We don't know because at this point in this case we don't have that information. That will come into play in the next part that we do when we analyze the case and the expert's information. But for now we don't know why he was puking. But what we do know is that within a few seconds after puking we do see Elijah try to reposition himself and that is when you hear another officer standing over him saying I will get my dog on you and it won't be good if you don't stop moving.

Speaker 2: 19:50

Keep messing around. I think we're okay for here. I appreciate it. Watch your step teachers Right in his puke.

Speaker 1: 20:07

Now I hear in the background they're giving reports, they're firefighters there and they're saying, hey, he did pass out. He passed out for about a second. So we have some verbal confirmation of somebody's perceived witnessing, of another one witnessing Elijah actually passing out from the corroded hold.

Speaker 3: 20:27

Don't do it dude. Relax, bro. Come on, you're gonna lose this one, just relax.

Speaker 2: 20:33

This is not appropriate. No, no, when we try to stop him, dude, come on. So is this anything? He speaks to English. He speaks to English, is he? Yeah, he's. What is the question? She's deaf.

Speaker 1: 20:52

What you're hearing now is the interaction between a firefighter who was right on the scene because he was called because of the corroded hold policy. He has arrived because the police officer's reporting that Elijah lost consciousness, so therefore firefighter has been called. Now they're waiting for medics to come, but what you hear is the firefighter in exchange with the police officers, and then you'll hear the police officers agreeing to each other about Elijah's Strength.

Speaker 2: 21:49

Hey, I know you're busy, but I still let you know. Stop, we had a suspicious call over here on build-out Dude you still out.

Speaker 2: 21:55

He's got a mask on his face. That's kind of weird. Nothing really criminal. My officers go to pay contact with him, he starts acting crazy and they put him in the attack room. I'm so glad he ended up trying to put a grotted on the guy. God please, and actually Well, stop fighting us, stop fighting the grotted on him. I put him out. They were right in my hand because we're still sparking with the police. My along scene. Please, please. That's what we're at. I just wanted to let you know. Yeah, we did that because you guys brought it to us and the other one, I don't. Oh, you got him. No, oh, I didn't know that. Okay, I knew him as a guard. I just wanted to let you know. I just wanted to let you know. I just wanted to let you know.

Speaker 1: 22:34

Yeah, that's all he has to do. That's what he was wearing.

Speaker 2: 22:36

Yeah, that's all he has to do, dude, that's what he was wearing, dude, excuse me. Okay, yeah, it was very minor.

Speaker 3: 22:41

So when the ambulance gets here, we're going to go ahead and give him a call. The cops are okay. The cops don't get it. I appreciate it.

Speaker 2: 22:47

Whatever he's on, he has incredible strength.

Speaker 3: 22:51

Yeah, crazy strength.

Speaker 2: 22:53

I had him in a bar, hammer behind his back and his arm was above his head and he was still fighting.

Speaker 3: 23:00

Is there anybody that can relieve me for a second? Spitz, oh, we need somebody to just you always get home for a second so I can get up. I'm like cramping up. Okay, yeah, I'm good, I'm good, yeah, so he's walking away from us and he did this thing like, hey, dude, this is not a big deal, Just relax. And we sat there for a good 30 seconds we're trying to calm down Like, dude, hey, not a big deal, we need to talk to you. And then he kept doing this and he kept saying things that didn't make any sense. And then I'm like, hey, bring him over the grass so if we get taken down, we can take him down the grass, not by Because you're right here by the rocks. And then he starts going crazy. Or a sweep, get him cornered against the wall. What's he doing exactly? Crazy? He's like saying stuff and he's holding his arms in and he's like I don't remember exactly what he was saying right now, but he's acting really strange.

Speaker 2: 23:59

Randy, you need to release buddy, Randy, you need to release.

Speaker 3: 24:04

No, I'm good, I'm just going to cut him down and then, over there, rody tells me to try to grab my gun. So we pull him down, while he's yeah, so he pulls his arm free and comes out, and I don't remember feeling it because I was focused on him. But he's like I'm trying to grab a gun, so I'm like, okay, so he comes down and then, yeah, he pulls him there and I don't know why. So what do you think? No, he just thought it was weird because he was wearing the mask and he's wearing all of his.

Speaker 2: 24:34

So, okay, I need the ad to see you talking about that part of the app. I'm fine with it. Can you draw a five over the 20?

Speaker 3: 24:44

Go do it. But so I initially tried and then his. I was in a bad position. I didn't want to hurt his neck so I had to release because I was behind. So you went to put it on, so it was more. It was like a almost like a schoolboy trying to get a gun backwards because I was the only position I had.

Speaker 2: 25:02

No, I'm just a cheater.

Speaker 3: 25:05

You're relaxed, dude.

Speaker 1: 25:08

Okay, a few things that we heard is the one who approached him and pinned him to the wall because he said that Elijah was acting quote unquote crazy. And he said acting crazy was saying things that didn't make sense. He was bringing his arms in and not cooperating, in the police's opinion, with them when they went to stop him. And you hear this officer say the other guy, the other officer told him Elijah was going for his gun. He didn't feel it himself.

Speaker 1: 25:51

You believe your partner is a police officer, I'm assuming and now we have a viable threat and now Elijah is on the ground. Now the police officer did anticipate needing to put Elijah down, maybe based off his experience with people that had similar behaviors, because he moved Elijah to the grass from the rocks when he was restraining him because he didn't want to hurt him when he gets down to the ground. So you do hear this police officer saying I didn't want to hurt his neck, I didn't want to hurt him down, I didn't feel him going for my gun. It's very important that we listen to what everyone is actually staying during the exchanges. Now you need to hear this part.

Speaker 2: 26:47

Let's go.

Speaker 1: 26:54

Right now they are trying to reposition Elijah and they are having multiple officers over Elijah to reposition him.

Speaker 2: 27:08

I'm sure he can breathe. He can breathe, I just have his arms pointing back.

Speaker 1: 27:16

Okay, make sure he can breathe. Make sure he can breathe, he can breathe, he can breathe. I just have his arms down to the side, he can breathe. Okay, I understand there is verbal concern After visually assessing this officer restraining Elijah, whether or not Elijah can breathe enough that a professional police officer in the situation thinks it's important enough to verbally confirm with the officer doing the pinning can he breathe? Make sure he can breathe. This is a very telling part of the case, in my opinion.

Speaker 1: 28:03

So, to synthesize where we are up to this point, elijah is walking at 10 pm to the local convenience store and purchases ice teas. He is seen on the security footage inside the store purchasing the ice teas. He does have a ski mask on. It is August. It does seem weird, but if this was just one year later, in 2020, everyone would be in a mask and a guarantee Nobody would have thought twice. But within the context of the time in 2019 and pre-pandemic, this would be one way to scare convenience store clerk possibly is to enter after dark in a ski mask. No, and on the footage he is seen thanking the cashier, paying for his items and then he steps back and does a little half-ball or deep neck, nod to the man behind him in line and does a little wave thanking the cashier, and it actually looks to be very respectful and extremely passive and docile to the other people in the convenience store. And the clerk never calls the police on Elijah. It's the concerned community member Now recall that Aurora's crime rate is exponentially high, guys. This could be a community member who was just trying to look out for the neighborhood and he even states that it just seems sketchy and that's all. Elijah was known to wear a ski mask due to his anemia and the fact that he would get cold very often, and he also had earbuds in and he was listening to music. The police officer arrives, stops him, and that's when we picked up the audio of Elijah proclaiming he has a right to walk home and he has done nothing wrong. Once the medics arrive and administer the ketamine, elijah's limp body is placed on a stretcher and his hands are uncuffed. It's then that Elijah codes in the back of the ambulance and the body camera footage from the police officer shows medics actively performing CPR on Elijah, and it's then that the police realize that this has turned into a possible criminal investigation into the actions of themselves.

Speaker 1: 30:23

In the next part, part three, we are going to dive deep into the aftermath. The justice sought the change enacted from this incident, which occurred on August 24th 2019, when 23 year old Elijah McClain was physically detained by police, living his last few days in a hospital as a medical staff tried to save his life, but were unable to ultimately do so. I care about people, I care about justice, I care about law enforcement, I care about people being held accountable and I care about learning from wrongful actions taken, especially when they're taken by those sworn to protect us and doing the exact opposite. If you're new here, you should know I am a daughter of a former police officer and I am a daughter of a lawyer, and I am also a free thinker who is searching for a way to learn from this case.

Speaker 1: 31:16

How can we all learn from this? How can we do better? We can't give Elijah McClain his life back. Like we always say at True Crime and Headlines, our goal is to learn from each case and advocate change to one day, hopefully prevent us from ever having to cover another case like it again. All right, I love you and I will see you next time, and later I'll see my mama as a podcaster. Bye, too.